never raise taxes ever. we will have to reduce spending. we will have to increase revenues, go back to the clinton-era tax rates. we need economic growth, and that is where the focus needs to be. i support bringing down the tax rate down to 20%. we need to make sure our tax scale is competitive. >> do you see that there is maneuverability in the tax proposals? >> in 2007, i signed it the grover norquist pledge. in 2010 i was asked to sign it again, and i did not. >> you changed on that? >> i do not believe we need to raise taxes at this time and i do not need to sign a pledge to do that.

>> we have to be realistic about what we are going to do and make tough decisions. i talked to people who are affluent and they do not mind paying more. >> we will continue the discussion about the economy, and whether the math really adds up for the deficit. we will look at some of the numbers, all of that on the other side of the debate. please stay with us. welcome back to the continuation of our debate. with us today, congressman allen west and patrick murphy. we will continue our discussion

with george bennett. >> we left hanging on the deficit. you are opposed to raising taxes. the deficit this past year was $1.1 trillion. if you are not going to raise taxes, what are the things you can cut to get close to erasing a $1.1 trillion deficit? >> we should be about $230 billion, but we have to look at agencies that were created that are not meeting up to their mission. you look at the department at energy that was created when i

was a teenager. it was to make the united states energy independent. what has happened with that department over the last 40 years? we look at the expansion of the government and education. when we separated education out of health, education, and welfare. we have spent more money at education at the federal government level, money that could have been used better at the local levels. we have to look at these duplicative programs. we have got to move away from baseline budget to zero-based budget. >> the gao had a study that counted 33 agencies that are doing the same thing.

we need to streamline these agencies. seven are focused on businesses and trade. let's streamline them. we have attacked medicare fraud and abuse. we need to continue to do that, in all government agencies. i spent years going into numerous fortune 500 countries -- companies looking for these inefficiencies. i plan using my government to find this week. >> can either of you give me any numbers? the department of energy? >> close to $85 billion. you are looking at a guy, never been in politics before, and i found three wasteful programs in the government. the combined savings of -- if every single member of the house was going and looking for wasteful programs, think about what that does.

>> it is going to be a balanced approach. we need to look into it the tax code and go after deductions and loopholes that far too many corporations and individuals are getting away with. we need to make it a more fair playing field for companies. >> i wanted to get a break with my producer's questions, up because we hear from candidates all the time about what we are going to find wasteful spending. this is a chart, the u.s. debt clock, and viewers can see it, you can look into the cameras with viewers. the u.s. national debt, $16 trillion and counting. also, as you look at that, you look at $3.5 trillion in spending this last fiscal year.

you talk about programs you can cut, but it is clear the three biggest drivers are medicare, social security, and defense, six out of 10 federal dollars. what are the tough choices that you are willing to make when it comes to prioritizing cuts in benefits or defense, because it is clear that the only three areas you can make substantive differences, and for the tea party, the people who put you in office, state how you would make the tough choices. where do you cut?

>> you included the overseas contingency operations. now we are now out of iraq, that does not count. my opponent said he would not support. cut the defense budget over the next 10 years. it is the sequestration that i am against. 62% of the budget is net interest on the debt. one of the things, stop with a payroll tax cut gimmicks, because we are driving social security into a deficit situation. we have to look at how we can reform and protect and preserve programs like medicare. >> a question for you, mr. murphy. any serious discussion to look at programs like this and serious cuts? where does it start? >> you cannot look at these three in a vacuum. it is a problem, and that is why i want to get the congress, because i think i can help out. you cannot look at it in a

vacuum. each department needs to be looked at to find these inefficiencies. there is a report that said congress is continuing to approve spending for our military where the generals on the ground to not want. i support everything in the defense budget that will keep our men and women abroad safe. when congress is continuing to issue programs and approved programs that generals do not want, that does not make sense. we need to look at all three departments. we have gone off after medicare, continue to cracking down and find more examples of this. >> a lot of people will be forgiven to say same old, same old, same old, presented with harsh numbers. if it was your household budget, you would look at the biggest items and say, which one?

if you have to prioritize, which of those three do you start cutting first? >> i would start cutting on defense. i've cut $487 billion over the next 10 years. we have to look if you want to talk about a balanced approach, you got to look at the mandatory spending side, which is 62% that we're not doing anything to, and that is where you have to have the courage -- medicare, medicaid, and social security. when you look at the constitution, our primary responsibility is to provide for the common defense. >> a good point to segue into medicare. >> we need people who are serious about solving problems. that is what this is about. president obama and john boehner sat at the table, and they

almost had a grand bargain, but the tea party and my opponent would not let boehner make a deal. now we're left with the sequestration. with the looming cuts at the end of the year that our economy cannot sustain is because of the extremism. >> sequestration was obama's idea. it had nothing to do with the house. i brought the legislation to the house floor to stave off sequestration. i am taking action. >> we are talking about spending cuts that will affect defense and social programs. it is a good point to start popping off on medicare and health care. your question goes to mr.

murphy. >> we have seen different numbers on what the paul ryan plan would do in the fact to increase costs to seniors, anywhere from $6,350 to about $200 a month. what kind of number can we look at and say this is what a cut will look like under this plan because of a large area of the budget that needs to be looked at? >> that is the kaiser family foundation study. under the ryan plan, 60% of seniors will face cost increases. this is something that needs to be addressed.

under their plan, we end medicare as we know it. we need to reach across the aisle and ensure that medicare is there for generations to come. i was talking to seniors and you could see the fear in their eyes, worrying that medicare will be taken from them. we cannot let it happen. we need real solutions. under the affordable care act, they found inefficiencies and they have taken back away from insurance company executives, from the pharmaceuticals, and given it back to seniors, this is what we need to do to bring down the long term cost curve that is driving our costs through the roof. >> we would now like congressman west to answer the question. >> when you look at the thing about ending medicare, that was debunked. medicare ends in 2024. courage means stepping up to do something.

the premium support plan paul ryan has proposed is something that came from bill clinton and his administration. it is indexed toward income. it provides you with the same health care plan that we are able to select as a government employee. what you see with the affordable care act, think about the mandate that came down two weeks ago, where seniors, if they were turned down by hospital, the hospital gets a fine. that is no way to treat seniors. >> we will have to stop. first, george will begin this cycle. >> on medicare, when you ran two years ago, you campaigned against the affordable care act and its cost reductions. you have been critical of that. when you voted for the ryan plan --

you have been critical, but the ryan plan also includes the $716 billion in savings. what is the difference? >> i have not voted to cut $716 million from medicare, but i voted against the the 3% withholding tax, the medical loss ratio. the affordable care act act is a tax law. there are 24 new taxes. we find out the individual mandate is a tax. we have financial transaction taxes, medical device texas -- these things were created for people to be able to earmark their income and it is now taxed. you also get 16,000 to irs agents that will be monitoring electronic records.

that is not how we repair health care. i wrote an op-ed piece talking about free market solutions. one of those key things is tort reform. talk to any doctor, catastrophic litigation is their biggest problem. >> congressman, you're not being honest. when you voted for the ryan plan, you voted to take $716 billion. i've never been in congress. let's be clear. this is future savings under the democratic version. they found waste, inefficiency and fraud, over-payments to insurance companies they are getting back to seniors through

annual treating and closing down the hall. the difference here is -- closing the doughnut hole. the difference here is paul ryan top the seven and $16 billion was a good idea -- thought the $716 billion was a good idea. there is a big difference when it comes to the $716 billion. >> the affordable care act that we were told would be $940 billion, is now $1.4 trillion. have you ever spoken to the palm beach society of health-care underwriters? these are the agents driven out of business. you are forcing more business to larger insurance companies. the treasury called -- treasure coast is getting hit with cuts, not because they are inefficient. >> i did speak to aarp, and they do not like the ryan plan.

let's talk about the seniors. with the affordable care act, we have added eight years of life to the program. it is a step in the right direction. we need to make these baby steps to continue to improve it. the affordable care act was not perfect. no piece of legislation is perfect. let's focus on how to improve it going forward. >> a conversation that will continue on the other side of the break. back with more on the other side. back now with all congressional debate, covering parts of palm beach, 10 -- county and saint lucie county. your question for the covers the -- congressman. >> the paul ryan plan has an option to continue in the normal medicare plan. explain how that is possible given that we are talking about

how much costs we are associated with the program that we need to cut. >> if you allow people to have the option of whether they want their own insurance plan, or a medicare plan, eventually it does end bending the cost curve. this country should be about having options. when i became a congressman, i had options in the health-care program that i wanted to have. i chose blue cross-blue shield, and i am paying for that. it is also index toward income. if you are a high-wage earner, you will not get the same amount of money as a lower-wage earner. in a long run we are talking about is exactly what everyone is saying, fairness, those that are higher-wage earners not getting the same as others, and we also look -- ought to look at raising the cap on social security, the age from 65.

very good proposals that we could look at incorporating. >> under the ryan plan, which covers the west voted for, we end medicare as we know it. >> the more you say it does not make it true. >> i talk to seniors every day, they are worried, and i see the fear in their eyes. we need to continue to find ways to make these programs more efficient. i believe when you give it to the private sector, there is a profit incentive there. how can they be as competitive? >> you did not believe in a profit incentive? >> not for small businesses, but when it comes to medicare, they deserve the best treatment, not somebody spinning off a profit

incentive and salaries. when you compare medicare to private insurance companies, their costs are way lower. what we have is working, but we need to make it more efficient. >> a brief follow, who can make it more efficient, private? >> that is part of free markets. that is what made this country what it is. when you talk about seniors been afraid, one of the main reasons they are afraid is because of their doctors dropping them off of medicare coverage because reimbursable rates are getting cut and cut and cut. that is a big concern for our seniors. >> it is about beneficiaries, those waiting for these treatments. the conversation should be focused on how we can look forward and improve. i would like to allow all

government to begin negotiating with large pharmaceutical companies, like the v.a. does with much success. we also need to work to a method of pay for performance, not just individual treatment. when it comes to health care, it is all about cost, and it is rising and an unsustainable rate. >> all of this begs the question, how do we afford this, and it goes back to the deficit question. outline your views on abortion, gay rights. mr. murphy, you first. >> i support the woman's right to choose. this is an area where we are on to the wall opposite to me tells of the spectrum -- around two opposite sides of the spectrum. covers the west voted to defund

preventative treatment for women, things like mammogram, sponsored the controversial bill to redefine rape and voted for the personhood amendment that would make all abortion is legal even in the case of rape or incest. i do not support that. when it comes to marriage equality, i am there. i support marriage equality. >> i've been married for 23 years, and had two years -- to -- two daughters. we do not support abortion. i do not support partial birth abortion, and i do not support president obama supports, a filed surviving abortion will still be killed. when we talk about planned parenthood, and don't let to throw this out, it is a $1 billion not-for-profit company that has been making a profit. i think that could go to a better place. one place i think it should go

to is helping us with the comprehensive everglades restoration project, helping to make sure our waterways and water quality is clean. >> 30-second response. >> sure. planned parenthood treats all sorts of women, women in need that need these treatments. i will not take away the funding for these treatments. it is interesting how use of environmental issues, when you voted to allow oil drilling in the everglades. that could not be more out of touch. a big part of this district is the environment, and so much of our economy is based on our environment. there is a direct correlation, whether it is tour is a more realistic. >> presidential candidate michele bachmann came down here and floated that idea and i was all over her on a -- like a black eye on a pea.

when you look at what has happened with planned parenthood, perhaps you should call kathleen sebelius, to whom the agency came out with saint planned parenthood is not doing mammograms. >> both of you have spent a lot of money. it is among the costliest congressional races in the country to support legislation that would limit the influence of outside groups, and is that necessary? >> that needs to be argued in front of the supreme court. the supreme court already made that decision. if you look at our record, we have an incredible amount, almost 95% from individual donors. i cannot help but that people want to donate. if outside groups, some have

placed $5 million in attacks against me. so be it at my opponent's father created pack specifically. i do not have a gold tooth, as you can see, and i do not like punching women. i think that needs to be argued in front of the supreme court. >> absolutely, we need major content -- campaign finance reform. coming from the private sector, see what is happening because of money, it is absolutely " gross, and i am completely against. it starts with the citizens united. covers the west has a super pacs supporting him. there is a $1 million to protect supporting congressman west. the person behind the super pac is a pharmaceutical drug company owner. you wonder why the congressman might not want the government to negotiate from a cyclical companies, aided about your priorities and where the money is coming from.

>> let me say this, look where president obama was negotiating with pharmaceutical companies with the affordable care act. >> if you overturned services unit, which with the shape be, and what legislation a constitutional amendment would you support? >> to completely overturned -- overturned citizens united. i think it is gross what is happening. that individuals and corporations can give that much money, that is not what this country is about. >> it should be argued in the supreme court, and the thing we should take up in the legislature. there are more important topics to focus on. >> a quick question, simple answer. do you apologize for the nastiness of your campaign ads, and then you look him in the

high end to the same. >> i do not know about the nastiness he is talking about. nobody said anything about the social security number being put out. >> do you apologize? >> i talk to people every day, and they're tired of the negativity. >> to you apologize to him? >> all of our eds are accurate -- ads are at the -- accurate. >> on that non-apology from both sides, we will go to closing statements. first, congressman west. >> i am proud of the record we have established in washington, d.c. my opponent talks about extremism. when i left the declaration of independence, our country was established and limited government, fiscal responsibility, individual sovereignty, a vibrant free market and strong national defense. that is been the essence of what i've done.

i am upset that we did not get a chance to talk about foreign policy and national security that is very threatening. we talked about which we did not talk about how to improve our military and take care of our veterans, but that is my commitment to the country that i have had in 20 digit for 22 years in uniform, and a commitment not -- i have had for 22 years in uniform, and a commitment that i take seriously. >> thank you representative that is more focused on job creation, not headlines. my background is exactly what we need to put our country back on track. i will focus on protecting the promise to our seniors and strengthening the pillars of middle-class, including medicare and medicaid, and not constantly demonizing them. my opponent called 80 members of congress communists, voted

to end medicare as we know it, voted to eliminate 10 million pell grants and supported legislation that would take away the woman's right to choose. "the palm beach post" even said he is everything that is wrong with congress. i'm a former republican. i was tired of the extremism. i'm a moderate and believe i have the background to get our country on track. we need to work together. >> patrick murphy, congressman alan west, thank you for being here. george, jonathan, thank you, and most of all, thank you. congressman west brought up an interesting point. we could only begin to scratch the surface in this hour-long debate and we know that monday

will be a huge foreign policy only debate, and largely we suspect they largely support their respective candidates, president barack obama and mitt romney. they will cover the ground, so we elected to move on. and on behalf of everyone here at wptv news channel 5, wishing you the very best. ambassador [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] >> we have been watching the debate between the two basic candidates for the republican and democratic side from the florida's 18th district congressman. patrick murphy is the west palm beach area. c-span is bringing to debase the out are 2012 coverage, showing the race is happening around the country and in your community. if you like to talk about campaign 2012, give us your call. we will hear from me.

we're also taking your tweets with #cspan2012. also have are faced a page set up. our life wrote to the white house coverage continues tonight. first, at age 20 5:00 p.m. eastern, mitt romney and his wife annette will be at a campaign rally in colorado. it sees them and bring that to you. -- c-span will bring that to you live. the president obama speaks at a rally in virginia. looking for your calls right now, watch and engage in share your thoughts and campaign 2012. where are you calling is from? >> the virgin islands.

>> what are you watching? >> i am amazed at how expensive it is for anyone to try to run for office. you look at the presidential election, you see how long the president obama has been campaigning for reelection. i wonder on any other level how possible is for someone of average means to run for office. that is what means to me the most. >> tell us about what the coverage is like in the virgin islands. what kind of information are you getting? caller: we get the networks and other stations. luckily, we are doing our own congressional race. our non-voting member is donna christiansen. but not sure what our third-

party candidates party is. then we have our local senatorial race where 7 persons represent each island in the local legislature. things are really hot and heavy here. the economy is the biggest issue. the question still is, how does a person like me run for office when it seems expensive? host: thank you. republican line. caller: i would just like to say in florida there is a lot of redistricting going on. these races are little bit different. what i have seen is in florida bay have charlie crist on the stump -- they have charlie crist on the stump.

president clinton has come down to florida. if you look at the polls in 2010, at the candidates clinton endorsed did not do very good at all. 2012 is the economy and issues that are important to floridians. i think it was a mistake for the obama campaign. we will see tuesday what is going to happen. >> this charlie crist's opinions way you much? you are a republican. caller: he's a nice guy but he has lost a lot of integrity. people really cannot trust him anymore. he plans to run for governor. i think tuesday will say whether he will run for governor or not

in 2014 against gov. rick scott. he has lost a lot of credibility. he has not been a man of his word. he has been a huge flop lopper. evolver.s call it an evil ov host: were you watching our carriage of the debate between congressman alan west n. murphy? yes.er: alan was talking about moving america truly forward. mr. murphy was talking about negativity, as these campaigns have been doing respectively. host: he is calling us from sun city florida. up next is allen, an independent in minnesota. hello. caller: i came this year in

minnesota michele bachmann is going to lose her seat. we should have a couple of democratic pickups there. i want to encourage people to really look at their party candidates in whatever say they may be in. we need to get more parties to the table rather than just democrats and republicans. host: are using much of that in minnesota? caller: in prior years more so than this year. it seems there's is the republican and democratic choice. we also have an independent streak, you can tell with a ron paul vote for president and jesse ventura. host: we will be airing a michele bachmann debate tomorrow. you can catch that here on c- span. looking at congressional and senate races throughout the country, joan is up next.

caller: i am doing great. host: what is on your mind? caller: here in maryland we have carter versus iraq somebody. even though i am a -- rob somebody. even though i'm a democrat, i am tired of all the career politicians. it is time for a change in the way congress is being run. we have people that may be good over time. they need to set certain terms for them to run and then let somebody else have a chance. host: do you feel the same way when it comes to the presidency? caller: absolutely. host: my youth vote for mitt romney? caller: i not decided for either one. there are things about both i'm not 100% clear about.

i remember back in to thousand eight when hillary clinton was running. one thing that struck me that clinton said was for those of you who need a president, that stood out with me. on a day-to-day basis, i do not see where the president makes much difference in my life. i am in a diverse neighborhoods surrounded by democrats and republicans. we all have a tight community. beyond the election, we are a really good neighborhood. we depend on one another to make it in our neighborhoods and communities. i'm still trying to make a decision. host: are you watching the ballot issues in maryland? caller: i am. the ones that stand out clear for me is the one with regard to the civil marriage is used.

i am trying to decide one way or another on that. i am a christian. that is weighing kind that heavily on a decision for me at this time. i do want to continue watching c-span. thanks for the great coverage. hopefully by tuesday and will make up my mind. host: us go to rebecca in austin. rebecca is on our republican line. caller: i am calling about alan west. i believe in him as being commander in chief, a leader, that he represents america and his ideals of what we stand for is a country that has always been victorious that gives strength in servitude in care to those or less fortunate. they can stand with us and the

victorious. we can unite and be there. on abortion topics, you do not get off or anything. in texas you have ultrasounds. the unborn have rights. i give credibility to the strength of this nation. host: that is the biggest issue for you? caller: it is a big issue. the democratic party has changed from john kennedy, what you can do for your country. host: are you gonna go out on election day? caller: i have done so already the democratic party has changed.

it is too big. it is cumbersome. it is divided. we bring people together. other nations come here to evolve and grow. host: let's go to gerald, independent caller. hello.: i have one thing to say. our country is divided since mr. obama has been there. to me it seems is as divided to this country to such a point that people are at each throats. someone to pull us together. i think mitt romney will do a little bit better together and pulling people together because he has done it in his own state. we would hope that after this is all said and done a new efforts to not spending money we do not

have. i cannot do it. you cannot do it. i do not think there is a list around there that can. we have to get people up there realize that it is not their money. it is our money. host: let's look at some comments that have come in on facebook. he set at only voting for democrats because the gop has lost touch with objective reality. they rant about the national debt and less tax cuts are involved then the national debt and deficits think no difference whatsoever. a delight to read the rest or any of the other comments are faced the pages c-span. beatrice joins us from maryland. hello. caller: i was just listening to the statements of some of the people. what they do not realize is that they have all this complaints

pertaining to barack obama. where is the complaint with bush? they think that barack obama is going to get into the chair for four years and bring this country out of the debt? the bush people put it in. they criticize a barack obama when every day [inaudible] host: are using a lot advertisements in maryland yes.aller: host: republican line. whether you watching? caller: i am watching c-span right now. and i know this is live whatever. host: it is. what is on your mind?

caller: i have done a lot of watching. i have seen a lot of what is going on in. republicans and democrats need to learn when they ask a question, listen to what the politicians say. they often say before i answer that, just simply answer the question. answer the question. it is very simple. we have had for years. we do not need any more games. we need new leadership and direction. host: you are in a state not considered a ballot state.

you think the candidates have been talking to you? we see them visiting states like virginia and ohio and colorado. they're not spending any time in oregon. do you think they're talking to you? caller: not so much. oregon is way up in the northwest. it is dedicated to itself. i was born and raised here. i was raised in orlando. i love the place. when i came back in 2010, it is still a great beautiful state. go to mike glover purity is a senior writer covering the campaign for over three days. so much to talk with you about. are you seeing any games

changing moment as we head into the weekend? anything happening in the last 24 hours? caller: there has not been a game changing moment. they have been here a lot. rummy has a pretty substantial field operation. they are putting in the kind of retail ever you need to win iowa. host: i do is a battleground state. do you think it is representative of other battleground states that do you see it as a bellwether da? caller: i do. it is almost evenly applied of between republicans and democrats. both are outweighed by those be

have not decided. i think the undecided voters will be the deciding voices. host: on the east coast we see damage still being dealt with because of the super storm. our people in i was talking about that? are they looking to see how president obama and mitt romney are coping? host: caller: it gives somewhat of an edge to president obama because allows him to be presidential, to come in and do the sorts of things president can do. it allows them to act and to step outside of politics for a moment. he has done all the right things. he is from the part of the country. i think a little bit of an edge

goes to obama. in times of natural disaster and international distress, people can turn to a present to look for leadership. host: in a few moments we'll take a look at one in the debate vilsck with christine dell se and steve king. caller: it is interesting. this is a heavily republican district. she has run a very long and active campaign, giving speaking probably the race of his lifetime. it is unclear whether she can actually get him that she is making him run for his efforts to stay in office. we have never had to see seeking

actually campaign. she forced him into it. caller: how much of the drought this summer is still an issue? guest: this is the most rural congressional district in iowa and one of the most in america. that substantial effect on farmers. crop yields were down substantially. farmers are feeling the pinch. it is an important issue. host: mike glover joining us from iowa. thank you so much for talking with us. the battleground state of iowa. we will go now to a debate between christie vilsack and represented seeking -- steve king.

he won reelection last time with 66% of the vote. christie is the former first lady of iowa and the wife of andvilsack. this is courtesy of iowa public television, the fourth house district. they are now joining sioux city been anchoring the priestly predominantly rural district that steve king has been representing during the past 10 years. he has been running this by very margins. redistricting may be diluting

the republican dominance. that is what christie vilsack may have been hoping when she declared candidacy. welcome to iowa press. you are familiar with the format. with this audience and the television viewers -- they will cheer at the beginning and end. the question in this debate edition come from sioux city journal writer bret heyward and kay henderson. >> mrs. vilsack, at an iowa

fundraiser, you said, you were running to prove being a woman is not a barrier. do you ask for them to put asidetheir issues and vote on you because you're a woman? >> i think the delegation will be stronger and i am from one of two states who have neve relected a woman. being a small-time person. and being 62 years old is something i bring to this. this makes me a candidate that provides a different view, and i think that this shows my temperament and temperament is going to be important in this

race. i think that there are times in our nation's history where you need people who are resolute and dig their heels in, but this is not that time. it was addressed by a man who approached me at the greene county fair. i am not a democrat or a republican, i am and american. i want to go to congress as an american and not a partisan. i bring that lens as a woman and there are many issues i want to address that are very important. >> mr. king, when you were speaking with iowa republicans, you said that she is left of san francisco and you said that democrats and to create chaos and order to gain power. can you explain that? >> i said they profit from chaos with fiscal

irresponsibility. you look at the groups supporting mrs. vilsack and spending hundreds of thousands -- they are left of san francisco. one is the anti-meat lobby. this is not a centrist running against a conservative. if you look at the positions -- and with regard to the women issue, i got women voted to office, and i nominated kim reynolds. the last woman to run for congress was marianne miller- meeks. i campaigned for her and vilsack worked against her. >> why did you call attention to your age? >> there comes a time when you don't care what people think,

but i need the votes of 700,000 people, but this is an aspect i bring to congress. i am someone already. i want to get things done. >> the implication is that you are in congress to "be someone." >> if anyone wants to look at my record, they know i'm moving the iowa agenda. and you don't just go there and put up a vote that best represents iowans. i take that beyond those limits. it would be a relatively easy thing to vote the district and sit in your office and work to get reelected. to take it to another level -- you have to sell iowa values. >> you know, congressman king has said that his agenda moved this country to the left. i want to represent the 750,000

people in the district and grow the economy. we lost a congressperson. >> let's talk about the economy. >> looking at the economy -- what can you do to accelerate the economy? >> i said i am focused on the local and i start with the local. i see the world as this district -- with teachers. i see my job much as i would on the first day of school. i would look at these counties as 39 entities and would make sure that they all maximize

their potential. i have laid out my plan for layers of economic opportunity. i carry a football with me to create another level of the bio- economy, within 10-15 miles of small towns. >> many wonder about the football? >> it is made of soybeans. and most cars are from detroit and the seats are made of this. with plastic bottles or using this to create asphalt. we can make that within 10-15 miles. >> in 2013-2014, what will stimulate the economy?

>> i introduced the first piece of legislation for biodiesel and represent the biggest renewable energy. government has to get out of the way so entrepreneurs can have their way. what the government needs to do is have a low, stable, predictable tax rate. we have to lower our regulation burden. when i was in business, 43 agencies regulated my trade. there is not a single company that says -- we are proud to comply with federal regulations. eventually, they would be shut down. >> what year would you say the economy will be reocvered with acceptable employment.

>> we don't know who will win. if i knew that, i would be more bold. if we win the majority. we'll hold it in the house, win the senate and mitt romney is president -- by the time he is up for reelection, unemployment will drop 1.5 points. >> what is an acceptable rate? >> 2%, which is a full employment economy. i would try to drive it down -- >> where would you put it nationally? >> we can get it around 4%. >> one of the problems we have

is gridlock in congress. congressman king has not done much in his 10 years. we need a farm bill to start with. that is the most important piece of legislation to people in this room -- >> is that going to effect unemployment? >> i think it will. the farm bill, people feel insecure and are not investing. >> >> is the farm bill important? >> i think so. is not just the farm bill. >> let me interrupt, because we are going to get to the farm

bill in a deeper discussion later on. >> if we can get the national rate down to what is the high rate in our district, i think that would be -- >> what year are we talking? >>. nothing is going to happen unless we have a farm bill, and infrastructure bill, a jobs bill.

nothing will happen without a jobs bill. >> let me ask one more thing. how long should unemployed men and women be entitled to unemployment. >> this helps protect people in the downturn, but you have to make sure people don't continue to depend on those. you have to make sure that we have a recovery. >> how long should the unemployment benefits be continued? >> i did not hear an answer from her, my answer is 26 weeks. this has been extended out to 99 weeks, and we need to understand that there is not a lot of return on that investment, there are people who are 63, and this is an early retirement. and job skills atrophy because -- we have the five people -- we know when unemployment runs out and we're there to hire them. this is not a good return on the investment. the safety net has been 26 weeks. >> i am coming back to you to answer that question. >> i don't think we need to have a definite time on the. we have to take a look at the recovery and make sure that we take care of people who have been unemployed. the answer to this is to take care of the gridlock and actually get something done.

nothing has begun -- been done in congress and many told the people there responsible. if we send the same people back this is not going to happen. we need a farm bill and immigration reform bill, and nothing has happened in congress. this is the most ineffective congress in the history of congress and he is one of the most ineffective congress people in our delegation. >> mrs. vilsack, as a catholic, how has your view on abortion been shaped by religion? >> i am episcapalian. my husband is a cathlic, my children are catholics.

we raise our children as catholics. i am happy to talk about my view on abortion. it is that it should be safe, legal, and rare. i've worked hard on the rare part, because i wanted to make sure this is not just something that divides us politically, and that i would work to make sure we reduce the number of unintended pregnancies and helped unemployed men and women get a job. i work with an organization that does research and now has the beginning evidence to show that we have reduced the number

of abortions in iowa by 26% and unintended pregnancies by 8%. i have been in washington talking about the results of this and we hope that this will be a model for the nation. we won't have to talk about abortion if we make sure that people have access to contraceptives. i would like congressman king to explain what his view is on that. he has said that -- i would like to know if he believes that women in this community have the right to -- the legal right to go into the drugstore with a prescription for birth control pills, and get some of the long acting contraceptives at the local family planning clinic and i don't think he has made his position clear on this. >> it is brazen to make it such a misstatement here. this is manufactured from the other side of the aisle. this follows as far as the president of the united states with what they put out earlier today.

there is a case called griswald vs. conn. this was 1965, when the supreme court said that there is a constitutional requirement, that prohibited the states from banning the sale of contraceptives. i accept that as constitutional, and we tell people to go something they can be constructive with. but this is constructive and a difference between us that is not manufactured. we have babies in america and iowa that are aborted because they are baby girls and the mother wants a baby girl -- a baby boy in said of a girl. this is -- the people of by what did not care about this. i think it matters to a low girls that are being aborted.

>> do you believe in the right to privacy which was put forward with griswold vs. connecticut? >> this is an important question for people to know -- >> i accept the decision of griswald. >> i take that as a no. >> then you misunderstand it. >> do you support an amendment to the u.s. constitution, the person had amendment that was proposed in the state of mississippi and failed? >> i would look at the language of that, but generally speaking, if so inclined to be supportive of the finding -- defining life at the conception and the catholic church in the five basic positions of the church with embryonic stem cell research.

i would want to see the language. >> if you years ago you showed a scale model of a wall that should be built on the southern border with mexico. do you still feel that this is the way to go? >> people said we cannot build a wall. i said, i would get down to the tinker toys and show them. i put together a model and said, this is how we do it. we could build a mile of this per day. this puts aside the argument, that we have 5,500 miles of the great wall of china, but my position is that we do not need 200,000 miles of wall, we just do that until they start going around the end. >> is this a concrete barrier? or a brief explanation?

>> when the president ridiculed the wall, he was 600 feet from the fences and the walls and the most down along the border. i would describe this as a kind of concrete system with the foundational trench, and the concrete panels, and if you build the wall up you have to have routes on either side, with the chain-link fence by the border. we are spending $12 billion -- $6 billion per mile. >> talking about immigration is what we're talking about. president obama -- if you join congress which be supportive of this trend continuing? >> the most important thing is to secure the borders, and do

whatever we need to do so that people are not crossing the border illegally, and drugs are not crossing illegally. i think we need to make sure that jobs are going to americans and we need immigration reform. we need to make sure that there is a pathway to citizenship for the 13 million people who are here, in the shatters -- shadows. and the people who are here -- they have a chance to live the american dream because many of them have offered their lives for their country. congressman king talked about the terms of electricity and use the language of this reprehensible and embarrassing to the people of iowa, that says we can use cattle prods on animals so why not of

electricity on people. >> that is a false statement and i will not respond to it. >> there are several communities within your district, that have a large influx of non-in list -- english speaking people, there are several communities like that. do you think these people need federal assistance in the way that the military assists with the military base, and the influx of children into the school districts. do you think that communities should get special assistance when they are in that sort of mind? >> i graduated high school in denison, and those are the community's most likely to ask for that.

i do know that we have glasses that are going on right now, -- classes going on right now and i don't know that there is a shortfall of that kind of service. i will not commit to anything intel i am sure that there is a need. >> mrs. vilsack, you heard this -- special population groups? >> gov. ray brought the southeast asian families here and we had a good way to make them part of the community. churches were working with the families. at the state level -- we created iowa centers that helped with these issues to fill the buffer. this is an interesting idea.

i don't know exactly how you'd move it forward, but it is interesting to contemplate. >> mr. king, are you planning to sue -- you said you wanted to sue president obama over the change in policy that young people would not be deported. >> he violated the constitution like gov. vilsack, he cannot do that with memorandum, and this was bogging people down. >> where do you stand on that? >> in the process? there are plaintiffs who won't come on until after the election. i will hold the suit up until after the election and we will get the suit filed.

>> the answer is -- we wouldn't have this issue if congress had done their job. one branch doesn't work well and another steps in. i think the president took a necessary step. >> we will see a couple of commercials right now, the first from mrs. vilsack's campiagn. >> i am christie vilsack and i approve this message. ♪

>> mr. king, mrs. vilsack has called you an embarassment to iowa. do some of the quotes embarrass you? >> i've said by the time i eliminated the questions and dishonesty, the only thing left was "i'm christie vilsack and i approve this message." the one that is true, was about the vote on hurricane katrina. there will be all kinds of wasted funds. it is a principled vote and it will be easy to vote on. king was right -- this is the

sioux city's response. the balance of that is false. i have had better votes since then. voting against obamacare, voting against cap and trade, dodd-frank, those were better votes, but the rest of those allegations are false. >> he is one of 11 congressmen who took a vote against hurricane katrina relief. i think that everything i said in that ad is true. we have researched all of it. these are congressman king's own words. >> and he is using one to define mrs. vilsack. >> what does it mean if mrs. vilsack calls for tax increases? she is for increasing taxes on

job creators and in this stagnant economy, christie vilsack will effect -- hurt job creation. on doesn't have a clue jobs. >> mr. king, you've seen the ad. >> that's the first time i've seen that, but am happy to respond. mrs. vilsack wants the tax increase to kick in on millionares, and many of them are job creators and small businesspeople. >> mrs. vilsack, you've asked for it to be pulled. >> i never said i wanted to raise taxes except on millionares.

it is not about small businesses. one reason they run that ad is because i talk about how i want to rebuild the middle class. i want to make sure we have economic opportunities and -- with millionares raising more. the proposal dave vilsack -- he talked about suspending the tax issues for small businesses -- would be something that is a good idea. >> another ad people are seeing, a photo of you and of nancy pelosi. how do you respond when folks like congressman king accuse you of being a nancy pelosi clone. >> one of the things about this

district -- i represented it for eight years. i see every small town in this district as my hometown, the town i grew up in. all the people in this district -- friends and neighbors -- that is why am. i am iowa. >> you accused her of being to the left of saying francisco -- san francisco. in response to her saying she represents iowa? >> i did not hear the answer to the question -- that was about nancy pelosi. this is what i know. i know that if christie vilsack is elected to the united states congress, the first vote she would put up would be the vote for nancy pelosi. you have to stand up and you have to shout the name of the personnel you vote for for speaker of the house. that is the question -- i did not hear the answer. >> first of all, we have no idea whether nancy pelosi be a

candidate for speaker of the house. there may be other people. i would never presume before i had a job to answer a question like that. i would take into consideration the other people who might be interested in the job. i'll make the decision at that time. there is no assurance that would vote for nancy pelosi or anybody else until i get the job. >> one thing about ads are both running -- we to accuse the other of not being a person who embodies iowa values. i would like each of you to in one sentence to describe to me what iowa values are. >> iowa values are faith and family and freedom and smart hard work and free enterprise. all the wealth comes from the land. we value that as closely as we can, as many times this weekend. it is a work ethic and faith ethic. that is why i have gone into -- i live here and my roots are

here. i did not move here to run this race. i will live here after november, whatever happens. >> i did a tour called the value of work and asked people around the district about bodies we had in common. -- values we had in common. i knew this would be a race that was divisive. they said the value of work is important. the value of service to the country, the value of stewardship of the land, family, and education, actually. people who i talked to said education is central to who we are in iowa. those of some of the basic values. i think i heard congressman king say the same thing. i do not think we are that far apart on what we would agree on

in terms of what our basic values are. >> he accuse you of being a carpetbagger. what is your response to that? >> all of these towns, i represent everything in this district for eight years. all of the towns and people in them feel -- >> as iowa's first lady? >> yes. i travelled the country, traveling and representing people in the whole state, certainly in this district. i represented everybody in the district. congressman king represented 40%. i represent the values of this district. >> mrs. vilsack, do you feel comfortable about some of the things portrayed in the ad -- would you like to have them along your side campaigning for you? >> i am not sure what you are talking about. >> the humane society, their views on pork production, would you like to have been campaigning alongside you?

>> i have not taken money from the humane society, if you are suggesting that. congressman king suggested that. i cannot and do not take money from anybody who does business -- the humane society, every single town in iowa has a humane society and people are pointing there and helping to take care of animals. i think it depends on what you are talking about. >> congressman king -- some of these ads, the first we saw was done by one of your campaign. are you concerned about how issues are being framed by ads by outside groups, particularly, how would you like the issues to be framed? >> i knew this would happen. that is why i said a year-and- a-half ago when the

announcement came out that this would be a holy war. i said, i will learn things about myself i do not yet know. they will spend millions of dollars attacking my reputation -- that turned out to be true. i knew this would be the first super pac collection iowa has experienced in a congressional race. one of the reasons i did this many debates is because this is the way to penetrate through that. i did not think we could offset all that spending. if you send back a $1,000 check, you do not get to wash your hands and say, they are nice people who are part of that community who made this ad. local people who take care of these lost animals are not affiliated with hsus. are people i've done it too. there is a big difference. this is a stark gap. the u.s. humane society has a legislative agenda that spends 1% helping pac's, driving a --

pets, and the balance driving a legislative agenda that is anti- meat, that does not sell well in this district. >> nobody likes a pork chop better than i do -- i want to say that. over these expenditures, we have no control. one of the things i was most proud to do and accomplish was to change campaign finance law. something like the disclose act, which -- the system is broken. it is broken like a broken arm. it is not terminal, but we need to fix it and i would like to be part of that. there is way too much money in politics. when i see these ads on tv i am seeing them for the first time. these are not organizations that i am connected with. in terms of the advertising. >> mr. king, i have a question about taxes.

let's say in 2013 you are appointed tax czar to establish u.s. tax policy. what would you do? >> i have opposed the czars, but it would be a tempting appointment -- the first thing i would do is make the bush tax brackets permanent so there is long-term predictability. then i would go to work to sell to the public the idea that, as ronald reagan said, the federal government has the first lien on productivity and punishes production -- we remove all taxes off of production and put them on consumption. we can transform this policy. that is a piece i have gone around and talked about. i've talked about it each year i have been in congress. i asked mrs. vilsack to debate that with me, but i did not get an invitation.

>> i would also like you to respond to that and outline what tax policy would implement. >> it would not be the fair tax. i do not think there is anything fair for the middle-class about a fair tax. basically, when i went to the grocery store this morning i bought milk for $3.55. if i had to pay 23% of every gallon of milk, 22% sales tax every time i bought a car seat to take my baby home from the hospital or bought a new car, that is considerable. that is fine if you make more than $200,000 a year. but if you do not, that is an incredible tax on the middle class. that is a really bad idea. >> it would only be $2.75 under

my plan. you have talked years about the fair tax -- why has it not become active? >> in all my years of talking to round table advisers, all the times i have tested this out, i would give the argument over and over again, they would come back and say, if it was a good idea we would have it by now. we are the most successful country in the history of the world, but we still do not have a logical thing -- there are political barriers in the way. the middle-class is not disadvantaged by this. we untax the poor. i have turned this around like a rubik's cuba, and every time it looks better and better. but we see people in power -- half of k street is funded by people advocating for tax exemptions. >> could it be enacted in 2013, 2014?

>> we need to elect a president who has a mandate for that kind of change. if we find ourselves in an economic conditions so desperate we are looking for a change -- we have that circumstance, just the wrong president. >> mitt romney does not think is a good idea, either. >> let's shift to horses and bayonets. when you are elected to congress, you will control -- the purse strings of the pentagon. what sort of spending priorities will you have on defense? would you have a spending priority for people or for weapons systems at the pentagon? >> let me start by saying a little bit -- in the future, we are not going to be judged on our might as a country. it will not be disorder as we --

how many soldiers we have have or how many tanks we have, how many aircraft we have. we will be judged on our ability to compete in the world economically. i spent some time with people who had survived presidents and secretaries of state on the council of foreign relations, someone i have high regard for. this is not my original idea. it is basically his. but i agree with him. i think we really need to focus strategically. >> what is strategic -- does that mean you would downsize the current military might of the united states? >> i think we need to be nimble. >> what does that mean? >> because we have to pay attention to terrorist outbreaks that come up often, we need to be nimble. we need to rely on technology. we need to be strategic in how we go about -- >> a smaller military then we have now? >> it might be a different military. it might be smaller, but the most important thing for us is to make sure we have a strong

economy in the world. that means making sure that we actually get something done and congress can get the economy back on track. i think we need to be able to react very quickly situations around the world, because many of them are much smaller. what we have done in the past, and congressman king is responsible for this, we have been involved in two wars that have taken a huge toll in human life and money as well. our debt is $6 trillion when he went in -- it is $16 trillion now. we put to wars on the credit card. we have to make sure that before we go into conflict, we are prepared to do that. >> let's ask about what you just said -- you can reply to that. then, if you explain your measurement of u.s. power in the world. >> i have been accused of starting two wars. [laughter] >> not paying for them. >> i did not restart those wars.

that has been repeated a number of times through the campaign. those things were started first of all in september 11 -- we were attacked. our financial center was crushed. we went into a downward tailspin economically. we went into afghanistan -- you do not check the balance sheet then send troops into battle. make sure they have the training and equipment they need and resources to win. i certainly have supported that. when nancy pelosi came in as speaker, the national debt was $8.67 trillion. when she teamed up with barack obama -- now is over $16 trillion. it looks like i have more power than nancy pelosi and barack obama combined to listen to my opponent. here is what think about military. i believe there is that in the military and the pentagon. i believe there is too much brass there. it will take people on the inside to reform it before we can get that right. we have partly to many civilian

employees. we are not keeping the track of that. there are people better in the system to make as recommendations than me. some people i work with, i trust them substantially. john bolton is one. >> he is the former u.s. ambassador? >> to the united nations. and a personal friend. i would add this -- we need to enhance our cia. the intel i get in classified briefings is terrible. it is a shame. i cannot talk about what it is, but i will tell you why did political responses that are from the public sources and briefings that are supposed to be top secret. we have gone down a long way in our intel. that has to change, because that let us be more mobile. >> is there a circumstance in which you would see that you could vote for a resolution to enter a war in iran? >> could you repeat the question? >> is there a circumstance in which you could vote for a war on iran? >> we have to do everything we need to do to make sure that iran does not a nuclear weapon. israel is our best friend.

we need to protect israel. yes, obviously i could if it were in the strategic best interest of the country and the strategic best interest of israel, which is often the strategic best interest of the country. we need to keep iran from a nuclear weapon, but we need to do everything -- sanctions seem to be working now. when the best things is that we have involved other nations in basically forcing iran to allow people to come and. >> just to clarify, i think i heard you say that under extreme circumstances you could a vote to support israel in going to war against iran. >> it would be extreme circumstances. we need to do everything we can, and there are lots of things we can do even apart from sanctions. this goes back to being nimble and strategic in terms of how we deal with this piece in question.

>> i have supported israel for a long time. i will continue to support israel. our intel -- i have said, i have doubts about it. israel does not get to make a mistake. is a fatal mistake for the nation of israel if they except accept the idea i heard out of vice president joe biden that he thinks that is as much as four years away before iran has a nuclear. we cannot tolerate that and let that happen. but i do not have my hands and the intel that tells us when it happens. here's what i said -- i would recommend to the president that he say, mr. ahmadinejad -- this will be from good intel, when they will get there. that will send a message, we will work so that you can save face as an individual and nation, we will do it diplomatically, but we will deconstruct your nuclear endeavor. if not, when that day arrives in the calendar, it is over. we cannot let them get a nuclear weapon.

>> mrs. vilsack, president obama has approved the use of unmanned drones to fight terrorists around the world -- that concerns some members of your party. are you concerned about that? >> not particularly. i think it is part of a strategy i am talking about -- there are a lot of different things that we need to be able to do. there are people who will be able to decide when it is the best time to use drones or any of the other tools we have to be strategic and nimble and our response. so i do not have any particular problem. >> mr. king, libertarians in your party have a view of drones that is not terribly positive. what is your view? >> i think the utilization of them to take that leadership of al qaeda has been an effective means in that part of the world. it is a case by case basis. i would not say i would remove the authority from the president to protect us. he needs to have that authority

as commander in chief. i am not critical of those. >> a kind of war -- a trade war possibly is spoken of as hypothetical with china, with currency manipulation and other trade policies. how aggressive should this country be in its trade policies with china? what specifically? >> more aggressive than they are. i have gone to china to go in there and engage with negotiations. i have pressed hard against the theft of u.s. intellectual property. it seems to be a pattern. they will sit around a table and say, okay, we will find these people and put some in prison. in reality it comes out of one pocket and into the other in china. i have introduced legislation that directs a u.s. trade representative to determine the value of the loss of u.s. intellectual property to the pirates of that from china.

they would then levy a duty on products from china echo and to recover that loss and distributed to the people who of the right to the property. >> mrs. vilsack, do we have a problem with trading with china? how should we modify? >> we need to continue to develop trade with china as we have our broader trade relationships around the world. i think we need to enforce our trade agreements with china. we need to be tough on them. they are -- there is a problem with intellectual property. they do not see that intellectual property -- i have also been there. >> do you agree with mr. king? >> probably. >> mr. king, earlier this month

your colleague, with a republican congressman, said he was unhappy with the rules of engagement in afghanistan and would support bringing troops home tomorrow. you sure that you? -- do you share that view? >> i would not look into that strategically to see what that really means in the aftermath, but i will say that advocacy is more open than it was a year ago. at this point i would say that our commander-in-chief has not articulated a mission in afghanistan. it is awfully hard to keep troops in a place in the not have a mission articulate it. i had some of that discipline and with president bush and the middle of the iraq operation as well, but if we pull out, what happens in the aftermath? >> i would rather that mitt romney laid out the proposal for afghanistan, and have some proposals that would lay out what i think is a better result. the proposals are strategic and dangerous to talk about on public and national television, but i will just say that i

expect there would be a civil war in afghanistan if we pulled out immediately. there are ways to bring that together in such a way that people can be represented in governments in a more effective fashion than they are now. president karzai has been handed a constitution where he rules the whole country. a saint would use that power. he has abused that power. i would like to look into a new constitution that would represent the people in afghanistan better than today. >> time for a new constitution in afghanistan? >> i think that we need to first of all make sure that everybody who has served there in this country, that we recognize they did everything that we asked them to do. in the and they have been asked to help train police forces. much like the national guard, they have been asked to help train them so they can take care of their own country. they need to do that. the sooner we can get out of afghanistan, the better. we need to invite these gentle

back to the small communities of this district. we need to build here. we need to build infrastructure here. >> not that you are not saying something important, but i promised you earlier we would get to the farm bill. the prior farm bill has expired for about a month. when congress will be addressing -- the new farm bill, there'll be pressure to have limited spending. what could you do, mr. king, to perhaps persuade urban representatives to want to spend money for a nice plump farm bill that helps iowa farmers? >> i have been working on this bill for a year-and-a-half. people on staff, we can be inside the shop to help shape that language. i passed it out of the agriculture committee. one thing i have done is make

sure we have bipartisan support on the bill. there were only allowed in no votes coming out of committee. now it looks like there are two components. our producers have willingly given up direct payments. that is a big thing. they stepped up and said we are willing to except the elimination of direct payments. i said my job is to hold onto crop insurance. i believe i am in a position to do that. so far i have done that. we have an impasse now between those who do not want to take a single dollar off of anybody's plate, the food stamp argument, at least 70% of this farm bill, and as to say they want no farm subsidies whatsoever. those refused to except a cut in food stamps are far greater than those who say they do not want any farm subsidies. >> we only have just a few seconds left -- i would like to have the last. >> there is no farm bill. a petition was put on the house

floor to pass the farm bill. other congressmen supported it. nancy pelosi supported it. congressman king has not. he has not led on this issue, and as a result we do not have a farm bill, the most important legislation to people in this district. he should be held accountable. >> 60 agriculture or groups support me. i do not know if there are any that support mrs. vilsack. >> i have traveled all around the world with members of the ag group. i've seen them in action. they know i can represent them because i have been doing for the eight years i was first lady. >> mr. king, name one thing you would do differently to make congress function. >> i did not prepare myself for that answer. as a person in public life, i've had $7 million poured over my head, attacking the four

things i did not say. i will say this -- on the missouri river bill, which i've yet to hear a position on from any vilsack in this country -- we were doing that for months. we were under water all summer. i introduced legislation. i should have gone broader. >> a few seconds left -- that will give you a chance to answer that. dysfunctional congress -- could you as a novice change anything? >> i think i can. i think i am the kind of person -- i want to expand the definition of being a congressperson to being a spokesperson for my state. i think i am the kind of person who, if you are going to hire someone to be a spokesperson, you would hire somebody who can speak to all the issues, who can bring different groups

together and go around the country to explain what we do here. we do take care of our animals, we are stewards of the land. i could explain why biofuels and wind are important to the economy the whole country. i can be a spokesperson in a way congressman king cannot. way congressman king cannot.